Please wait while my tweets load 
Love Wins, or God Wins?
Mar 15 | Pastor J.D. | 15 Comments |
Here is a rather exhaustive, though excellent, review of Rob Bell’s new book Love Wins.
It’s worth your time.
The Gospel is important. As Martin Luther said, “Without it, we have nothing.”
My heart breaks for Rob Bell and the people he has influenced and is influencing. What troubles me so much is that all of these same questions that Rob Bell asks, questions that led him into unbelief, are the very questions that have often dominated my heart. I have felt the tug of this attraction into universalism and often stood on the very brink of the same pit of unbelief into which Rob Bell, I believe, plunges in this book. In the end, however, I have decided to let God’s word stand in my conscience—even though it often shatters my categories, blows my mind, and offends my thinking. I hold onto God’s word like a lifeline in the midst of a storm of unbelief—the parts that make sense to me and the parts that don’t. God’s word is the only thing we can hold onto. His ways are not our ways. We must believe it, as it is written, or redefine it out of our foolish hearts. Paul said God’s word would often appear like foolishness and that it would “offend the wise.”
I have no doubts about Rob Bell’s sincerity. I pray God gives our generation the grace to hold onto the Gospel.
Here is a highlighted PDF of DeYoung’s review, if that is more helpful for you.
15 Responses to “Love Wins, or God Wins?”
Leave a Reply
Subscribe via Email
Pages
Summit Links
J.D.’s Resources
Facebook
Vimeo
God’s word does often “offend my thinking.” I’d never thought of it like that, but it’s true. It’s the same arguments I hear (and secretly harbor at times) regarding complementarianism.
JD, My question to you is this: so many people who are Bell fans/fanatics will criticize any who dare rebuke or respond to him; so what is the BEST approach to conversing with someone who thinks Bell is spot on and that even if he’s wrong it’s not that big of a deal?
Hi J.D. Let’s be careful about accusing someone of sliding into “unbelief,” which implies willful rejection of God, loss of salvation, etc. I do not think we should pass judgment on Rob Bell’s soul in this way just because his theology is controversial. I’m also reading conflicting reports about whether the book represents “universalism” or a more standard historic “inclusivism.” One writer says he denies Jesus is the only savior, but I’m guessing this is a misnomer. Christian universalists believe that Jesus is the only savior, but that he saves all people. Even if Bell does represent universalism, as you know there were universalists among the early church (e.g. Origin) as well as among contemporary theologians (e.g. Balthazar, probably Barth). Let’s be careful how we denounce them even if we disagree with them. Perhaps amend your post?
excellent review! even aside from the content of the book in review, i’m challenged by deyoung’s critique to weigh every teaching against Scripture. i not only felt informed… but also challenged to be a more intense student of the Word.
Unfortunately, Ben, this is how I see it. I wish it weren’t true. I might not feel so strongly if I had not stood on the edge of this precipice so often, and felt it pulling me down into it. I knew I had the choice to believe what God’s word said, or change the plain meaning of Scripture to fit the dictates of my own foolish heart.
Rob Bell makes it quite clear that he finds orthodox Christianity to be loathsome… and it is clear from the selections in his book that he subjects the Scripture to his own judgment.
Unbelief is often not willful, nor does it automatically damn a person’s soul to hell (since Scripture says both Peter and the man whose son was healed – Mark 9:36-38 – both had it), but it is still unbelief.
Amen, J. D.!
I couldn’t agree more–and hear (and resonate with) your heart behind your words. Just finished the Bell book this afternoon with a heavy heart that is forced to conclude that it is every bit as damaging and subversive as I’d feared.
I pray that the Spirit of God will mitigate the damage and give us His supernatural wisdom and grace in knowing how best to respond!
I praise Him for men like yourself who are continuing to hold firmly to the Gospel as revealed by our gracious God!
Ben,
Inclusivism is just another name for Christian universalism in the sense that hell is empty. Origen was a heretic. Rob Bell has declared penal substitution to be “toxic.” You are likely a bright young man…read Bell’s book carefully and certainly read Kevin Deyoung’s review.
I have an honest question:
I cracked into the book this weekend, just to see for myself what Bell writes.
One of the very first lines in the book is “the woman who wrote the book of Hebrews….”
I’ve heard many times that the author of Hebrews is unknown. I’ve heard that it may have been Paul or Luke, or possibly Timothy.
I have never heard that it might have been a woman.
Anybody know where he’s getting that?
1. I believe in an eternal Hell. If I’m wrong, I will be estatic!!! If you WON’T be, then you need to check to see if you are really saved.
2. Calling Origen a heretic is stupid. All of us would be labeled heretics by “The Church” 600 years ago. If Origen was, then Augustine was a heretic. Lewis probably was also. Calvin would probably burn all our Elders. Don’t throw around the heretic word loosely. Tell me your definition of “heretic”, Buckley “The Heretic”?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heretic
3. I think Rob Bell tries to be too politically correct and is too angry at the more “conservative” of us…just like Greg Boyd. But they are still my brothers in Christ and Boyd has some of the best sermons on Prayer that I’ve ever heard. Rob Bell seems like the kind of guy that wears a bone around his neck for absolutely no reason.
4. I think saying someone has “fallen into unbelief” needs to be clarified, Mr. Bishop Greear. You kind of “threw it out there”.
5. Has anyone on this post read the book? If so, how is saying that there is no eternal hell not “holding onto the Gospel”. So if you are a Universalist, that automatically makes the Gospel of Jesus Christ less important to you? I don’t connect those dots. If I knew that no one was going to hell, I still would witness to people every day because they still are lost, God commanded me too, and I desperately want “lost sheep” to come back to their Father….because I love THEM…and I love their Father and mine.
6. I wonder if Rob Bell likes South Park. I bet Piper doesn’t. I bet they BOTH listen to NPR a lot. Those are just hunches.
7. Piper is hard core Pro-life, which wins him points BIG TIME with this proud Southern Baptist. Even though he doesn’t really think God loves everybody.
Posey
Zack,
To reply to your question, in 1900 the German church historian and Bible scholar Adolf von Harnack first proposed that Priscilla may have written the epistle to the Hebrews. He gained the support of leading Bible scholars of his time. I am the author of a book on this topic, “Priscilla’s Letter: Finding the Author of the Epistle to the Hebrews,” in which I build upon Harnack’s arguments, with additional evidence. If you’re interested you can find my Ten Point Summary and some of my published articles on Wiley Clarkson’s website, http://www.clarksons.org/spiritleads.htm. Thank you for asking the question. I would like more people to know the
case for Priscilla; I think they might find it reasonable, and perhaps convincing. Ruth Hoppin
HA! See I told you picking a shepherd is of upmost importance J.D. I am so glad you stick to the scriptures! The scriptures are what we are to hold tightly to in the midst of our weak minds and bodies that will try us to falter. Stupid flesh. Lol. I mean even Jesus said that we should live on “…every word from God’s mouth!” according to the bible, which is just that, “God breathed”. (ahem we just covered that a few sermons ago, haha In Luke 4)
Always, Always, ALWAYS compare anything anyone says or writes with God’s Word. If it is God we are living for and desire to please out of love for Him, then we should be intently listening to His word, not someone else’s.
I do wonder how someone with as much knowledge of the Bible as I think Rob Bell would have, could hold some of his views. I am sure he must have read the warning (aka, God’s Warning to us – not just a warning from a colleague) in the Bible about not subtracting to or adding to God’s Word which is what he was accused of in the interview by the reporter….
Ben… I’m as diplomatic as they come… but the purity of the gospel is worth making a stand for. J.D., thank you. May we all stand for the gospel and stand upon it. An altered gospel is no gospel at all. An altered Christ is a false christ.
My father got involved in universalism a few years ago, a slippery slope… from which he quickly devolved into believing Judas was the true disciple… and now follows a cult out of California believing that we each are the “I AM.” (God) It all started with a false belief that there is no such thing as hell and that Christ saves all men, regardless of whether they put their faith in Him or not. Shortly thereafter, Scripture began to be re-translated right and left… culminating in his current hatred of the gospel of Christ.
2 Peter 3:14-18: “Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by Him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.”
ISIAIh 41 BRING forth your IDOLS did they PREACH to you see they can’t speak they can’t DO ANYTHING all they do is cause confusion. spalms 115 and spalms 135 thier IDOLS are FALSE cant speak can’t hear cant smell and those that make them shall become like them. Jeremiah 10 they nail their IDOL down like a scarecrow it can’t move can’…t speak can’t move must be carried these are nothing but the WORK of CON men.john 10 jesus christ sais his sheep hear his voice and another voice thy will not follow and if another person tries to preach to them they WILL FLEE from him. jeremiah 5 the priests bear rule on their own authority what will you do when your judged my word is not inside them. Now here is the kicker john 5 son of man voice goes back in time mathew 16 jesus christ claims to be the son of man.1 cor2 mind of CHRIST preached internally and john 16 sais the spirit of truth comes in the future. Ezekiel 13 lying prophets of ISRAEL my word is not inside them saying god sais god sais god sais wrote hoping mankind would CONFIRM their WORDS. all of this is EASILY verifiableSee More
JD, how can you personally recommend somebody’s review of the book if you haven’t even read it yourself? If you would take the 2 hours or so it takes most people to read this book, then your thoughts would begin to carry weight.
The title of this post is unfair to Rob, and its also misleading to the reader, as you mentioned God 4 times in this post, and 3 of the 4 instances are followed by: “‘s word.” So if you want to really strip down and play the dualism game (which is also unfair), you are really asking: “Love Wins or God’s word Wins?” If you believe that God is love and bigger than our understanding, then you’re essentially holding closer to your Bible than you are to God’s sovereignty. You’re betting on how God works in the name of “Orthodoxy,” which is something that isn’t really your call to make, BibleMan!
Chad, who said I didn’t read the book?
Also, not sure what you’re getting at with the point about God’s word. Jesus held the Word of God in the highest regard, and the Psalmist (Ezra) said that it was to be given the same “weight” that God’s name itself was!
Pitting God’s word and God’s sovereignty against one another is not wise. How did you learn about God’s sovereignty? Was that something you were given special insight into apart from God’s word? If not, how do you determine the difference between the parts of God’s words you believe and those you don’t?
Hey JD,
Thank you for responding. I apologize for accusing you of commenting on Bell without having read the book. I just didn’t see any indication from this post that you had done that. I also apologize for my snarky tone, as I was irritated by my assumption that you were one of the many who had something to say without giving the book a fair read.
If you really feel that the Scripture is to be held in the same regards as God, then I have no choice but to accept the fact that we are on completely different pages, and it makes sense to me that you wouldn’t understand what I was getting at. Your question regarding knowing about God apart from the Bible is rational and worth asking, but I am of the opinion that God is much bigger than the Bible (and that I do not feel that I need the Bible alone to validate that opinion). Common sense tells me that although the Scripture bears great witness to God, the divine can not be contained within the finite limits of an earthen book- holy as it may be. I understand your point that it is difficult to speak of God outside the confines of the Scripture, but that isn’t problematic for me b/c I feel that we could devote our entire lives to understanding the Scripture (as the Pharisees did) and still have great flaws in our interpretation today– so to me, it’s never a matter of “what parts you believe, and what parts you don’t” when I acknowledge that my ability to interpret is limited from the start. That being said- I believe that God’s sovereignty is greater than anything we can read about or imagine, and I obviously don’t need the Scripture to justify that belief.
Please correct me if I misunderstand you, but I am a little bit troubled by the way that you quickly escalated the authority of Scripture to that of equality with God because of something that Ezra said. Seriously, that worries me. Which passage are you referring to? Doesn’t matter— still worries me. It also bothers me that you question my ability to know God’s sovereignty apart from what I can learn in the God’s word when you essentially hold the belief that God’s word is given the same weight as God’s name- because God’s word says so.
I wouldn’t argue with what you said about Jesus holding the law in highest regard, but he sure did have a lot to say to people that were confident in their understanding of it… I often wonder what Jesus would think if he came to America today and looked at our English Bibles and learned about “orthodox doctrine.” What makes us think that we can completely “get it?” As if Jesus didn’t already have enough correcting to do about the Pharisees’ interpretation of the Torah—now we have another Testament to read through our darkened lenses.
I think one of Bell’s best points in the book is where he talks about the Parable of the Lost Son- and how about both sons approached the Father with their assumptions about the way the Father works, and they were both wrong. I hold mystery to be such a great truth about God’s nature, and I’m just not willing to bet all my chips on the details of how God handles His business (something that people argue over while all using the Scripture)– for this story that the Father started is also His to finish. I guess the bottom line of what I’m saying is that I’m willing to give that respect to God to not underestimate his sovereignty by limiting it to that which can be read about God. I don’t necessarily agree with Bell’s conclusion, but I applaud him for leaving open the possibility for God to surprise us all.
Thank you for reading this, if you got this far.