(Ask Anything Friday is a series that I try to get to each Friday… if you have a question, submit it HERE. No subject is off-limits! Questions can relate to the church, theology, personal life, etc.)
So, selfishly I hope this one is not from a Summit member who is looking for a reason to leave… but, whoever you are, I hope this gives you some parameters.
Here are 2 truths I'd encourage you to balance:
- We live in a highly-consumerized, no-commitment, what's-in-it-for-me culture. That principle works wondrously in the free market, and is absolutely destructive when brought into the church. If you approach your family that way, you will destroy it. If you approach your church that way, you will destroy it, too. Paul tells the Ephesian believers to "grow up" (Eph 4:1-16) which he defines as learning to use your spiritual gift in the church, not being fed and having your needs met each week. It is infants and toddlers, not adults, whose primary concern in being fed and having their bottoms wiped by others… Ironically, some of the "seasoned" Christians who complain the most about "not getting anything out of their church" act more like toddlers than mature believers! The church is not about you… and being fulfilled as a Christian is not about hearing spine-tingling preaching each week, but about using your spiritual gifts in the church. For example, I never get to "hear" great preaching on Sunday, but I still feel fulfilled each week because I am using my spiritual gift in the church. This is important for any church… because your church, no matter what it starts like, can not remain perpetually "the hottest show in town." Someone younger, cooler, and flashier is right now preparing the next best thing. So, we'll have ups and downs, cold seasons and hot ones. Thus, we need people who will commit to us because they believe in our mission and who will become a part of this family… who will not just make contributions here, but be committed. It's like the difference in how the chicken and the pig contribute to your eggs and sausage breakfast. The chicken makes a contribution; the pig is committed. Summit needs more pigs.
- I only have one life to live, and I want to invest it where I get the most return. You get the greatest return on relationships when you invest yourself in one place for many years. Pastors who flit around from church to church always looking for a better deal never really have any impact, and church members who do the same don't either. Thus, I want to plant myself in a place where my family and I are growing in the Word, in relationships, and in the use of our ministry gifts over the long haul. This matters even more to me now as a father. I want my kids to grow up in a place where they will see and experience first hand the best community of believers I can offer to them.Gospel-centered ministry is an absolute priority; the spiritual health of my family is too important to have them in a place without it.
I also really want us to be in a place where other people are working as passionately for the mission as we are. You see, God set up the church so that our gifts would be maximized when we were using them in concert with a bunch of other people using their gifts. In other words, it is better to go to a place where others live and believe like you so that you can be part of a team than it is to try and be a "Lone Ranger Christian," the one faithful voice in a dead church. You'll be much more effective working side-by-side with like-minded believers than you will trying to effect change on your own. And that is especially if you are a "lay-person"… if you are not part of the lead pastoral team, you very likely will not be able to turn the ship around.
All that to say, I'm not sure how to give you a "litmus test" for when to stay and when to leave. I have known people who felt called by God to stay in a dying place and believe God for its resurrection and actually saw that happen. I've known others who tried that and, because they were not in a place where they could really effect the change they desire, "wasted" some great years in a dying organization. I've known others who left a dying church and went on to serve God somewhere else, and were greatly blessed in the process. And I've known still others who abandoned ship when they should have stayed.
If you think there's a possibility of change, I'd say stay and go for it. When you see that there is not, invest your life elsewhere.
Don't be a consumer. Choose where you invest your life wisely. Sorry, that's all I got.
Pastor Greear,
Allow me to respectfully disagree with your premise in this post. Is the most important factor in a church the ability to plug in and use your spiritual gifts? The passage you reference (Ephesians 4:1-16) refers to the God’s gifting of the church with apostles, evangelists, pastors and teachers to the building up of the body and to equip the saints for the work of the ministry. However, there is nothing in that passage that limits “work of the ministry” to serving in the local church.
I would submit to you the same criteria that the early reformers used to identify the marks of a true church: 1) Clear preaching of the gospel; 2) faithful administration of the sacraments (baptism & the Lord’s Supper); and 3) the right administration of church discipline. To the extent that a church exhibits these three characteristics, it is a true church. Therefore, the converse would be true; if any of these elements aren’t present in a church, it fails to be a true church. This gives us the criteria for whether or not one should remain in a local church.
Your two criteria, while good things to have, aren’t critical to the mission of the church universal. Your paradigm seems to see the church as the place where we go to exercise our gifts as opposed to the place where we go to receive the grace and blessings of Christ so we can go out and “do the work of the ministry” in our Monday to Saturday lives.
Respectfully,
Carl Gobelman
is marrying a man on another church staff a good reason? Just asking…
Carl,
While you used more precise and historic language, I would hope that is a little of what I covered in point #2. I said that Gospel-centered ministry, which would cover what you said, is essential in any church we choose to be a part of. I appreciate what you are saying, thought.
Brittany,
No. You are out of the will of God and subject to church discipline.
Thank you so much for this timely post, J.D.!
We recently moved from Durham where we attended and were involved at The Summit to a “city” (pop. 50,000) in Minnesota. Since being here, it has been hard to find a church that meets even the first of the reformer’s three points for a true church.
We have recently been attending and have considered becoming members at a dying but alive in Spirit, Southern Baptist church in town that meets those points.
Your post today gave us clarification on some thoughts we have been mulling over and is greatly greatly appreciated!
Thank you for your ministry and its reach even into Minnesota!
It’s ironic for me that you are touching on this topic because I have been contemplating this very question(I did not ask the question though). I have been visiting The Summit over the last few weeks but remain unsure of whether I want to make the leap of leaving my home church to attend another (possibly The Summit). I planned to return to my home church in April and make a decision by the end of that month. My son loves Summit Kids and puts in a request to attend every week since his first time. The volunteers already know his name. I have been fed well after each service I have visited since my first visit last year. That said, I felt convicted after reading the first part of your Truth #1. Then I thought about the statement “because they believe in our mission” – I don’t know if I know the mission of my current church family anymore. That’s one reason why I am at this point. I wholeheartedly agree with #2 which is why it is tough to leave – I have developed relationships with some good people at my home church. That said, several of them have left already. I don’t want to feel like I’m jumping ship with everyone else… I know I’m not. My home church is far from a dying church by the way – it is growing and thriving. Ultimately I want to KNOW that my talent and tithe contributions to my church family, whomever that will be, will go to glorify God and fulfill HIS mission. I have a feeling I can KNOW that with the Summit.
Thank you both J.D. and Carl for helping me with this important decision.
Pastor Greear -
I appreciate your post. Our church has been struggling with (key) people and families leaving for a couple years. Some have come in and filled their place, but it still hurts to see long term (10-20 year) families leave.
Some complained about the youth director. Others, the preaching. Others really like the preaching. I suppose you deal with this on a weekly basis, but man – is it frustrating.
One another note – I used one of your sermons as a basis for one I had to give on very short notice. I had just listened to it (podcast while going to work). My pastor called at 6:30 am that following Sunday – stomach flu. Thanks so much for bailing me (and our church) out of that one (this is a layman writing – NOT a preacher). I DID say that the sermon was based on your sermon – I did not take credit.
I am going to submit a question if I may? We have been attending our church for over 12 years and moved 12 years ago to be able to attend this church – for various reasons. My husband has been commuting for almost a year 2 hours to work and 2 hours home for that amount of time. We have been frustrated with things for a few years and now that there is not a functioning youth department (only filled positions) we are considering moving. My husband has no relationships with the men in the church because of his work. He feels the people he can most witness to are at his place of work. He only sees the men at church on Sundays. I am a very active member of the church (Sunday School, Children’s Church, Youth Drama, monthly newsletter, full-time volunteer at our christian school, leader of a home bible study). I am concerned that we are staying out of obligation rather than for our children (which are the main reasons we moved) We have no organized youth nights or services. We have an 18 year old who organizes a christian movie once a month. I am a mother of 4 and don’t see the same qualities in the church that first drew us to this church. I know there is an obligation to our Saviour to work where we are planted. When do you move when you feel you need to for your families sake. I know that the church can’t save your children – that it is a relationship that they have (and see modeled) but I don’t want to look back and wish I’d have moved because the influence they were seeking wasn’t my influence – but the influence of their peers (who we can’t even let them hang out with because of the different values between families). It is hard to paint the entire picture for you – but I think I have given enough information. Any advice would be appreciated and scripture most important.
ps. There is a christian school position available in the town we are considering moving to. Is it right to say if I apply and am accepted – it means we should move? There are 3 other applicants.
Sue, it’s hard to know… I would prioritize family involvement about everything. Be in a place first where the word is preached clearly, and second where your family can be very, very involved. That weighs more than “duty” to your home church. Again, just an opinion.